Growing up in Shanghai and filling his ears with the sounds of the main pop girlies, Chengcheng had ambitions of becoming a world-renowned producer. After moving to America and graduating from Berklee, Chengcheng’s world was flipped upside down with a chaotic breakup. There was tons of chatter about “boundaries” from his ex, and Chengcheng grew tired of hearing the word. So… why not sing about them?
Read my chat with Chengcheng about his debut single “Boundaries” below!
Okay, full disclaimer to literally the whole world: when I first heard this song, I was driving in Anaheim about to get on the freeway… and it’s not good to check your emails while driving, but I’m a very impulsive person. I was like wait… lemme just refresh this! I decided to click on a link to stream, and I was like OOOOH, OKAY! If we could put pleased and amused in one word, that’s how I felt.
I’m so flattered. You don’t know how amazing the feeling of just being appreciated as an artist is. That’s probably the most you could ever ask from your audience I guess.
Awwww that’s so awesome! We’re gonna chat about “Boundaries” today, spill a lot of tea about that, and your career too! Everybody needs to know this.
Yeah! So, just a little bit about myself. I graduated from Berklee College of Music last December, and I spent two months at my ex boyfriend’s place in New York… who this is a song about… and then I moved to LA in February.
I was about to ask, were you doing Berklee online? Were you out there in Boston going in person?
Yeah, I was in Boston for four years. It was fun, but you know Boston… everyone’s like, “those are your best years, but you’ll never move back.”
NO SHADE TO ANYONE WHO’S READING THIS FROM BOSTON IF YOU’RE THERE!
Literally! I’ve talked to so many people who’ve moved from Boston to LA, and they’re like… Boston is cute for what it was, but I wouldn’t move back, you know what I mean? It’s like, LA has a place in your heart and you just don’t want to go back.
It has a place in my heart that I don’t even imagine abandoning. What’s done is done, but we can always make good art out of it, you know?
That’s very true actually, and it’s in progress.
Other than the pursuit of happiness and a fruitful career in music, what else drew you to come out to LA? Something must have made you go hey, I can’t be doing that in Boston, and I can’t be doing that in New York… because that’s a big change by the way.
That’s true, and that’s actually not even my biggest change in my life. I grew up in China, I’m from Shanghai. Before Berklee, I actually never came to the United States before, so that’s actually a way bigger change you know? From Shanghai to Boston. So four years later, I was like oh, I’m gonna move to LA. People were like, wait, do you know anyone in LA? (No.) But if I can move from Shanghai to Boston without a problem, Boston to LA is literally nothing to me.
Was it scary for you? Tell me about that! That’s such a big change, and I feel like the average person wouldn’t even assume that you didn’t know anyone… did you know what to expect at least?
A little bit! I knew some friends who went to Berklee before, but I wasn’t really close to any of them. I heard snippets of stories here and there, but nothing actually really prepared me for life in the US. I think my first year was 2018, and that year was definitely rough for me. There was a lot of culture shock, and the transition… 2018, that was depressing, I have to be honest. I bounced back in 2019, and then the pandemic hit. [LAUGHS] It was just so… I was even surprised that I’m even doing the music things.
You bounced back and you’re here! That’s really good.
Yeah, I know. Sometimes even I surprise myself.
Be proud of that.
I am. But like, even before I came to the United States… I grew up listening to pop music, all the way back to like Backstreet Boys and Britney Spears, that early 2000’s stuff. The late 2000’s stuff like Katy Perry, Miley Cyrus…
POP GIRLIES!
YES! The pop diva, bubblegum era hits, 2010s when like… the epitome of that era was 2011 probably.
YESSS! You had Miley doing her thing, Gaga was doing her thing, Nicki was doing her thing…
OH MY GOD… AND RIHANNA!
Rihanna was doing her thing!
All of my pop divas were just thriving at that time. That’s actually when I was like oh shit, this is really what I want to do for the rest of my life. They really shaped who I am to this day I think. I was like, I want myself to be heard, and I want to create an anthem that everyone can join in and dance to. That’s always been my dream, I knew I wanted to do pop music. So if I wanted to do it, the only place I’d want to go is Hollywood, LA, and I knew that.
But at that time I was also like, maybe I should do a music school because I thought it was a safer move for me. I knew I only wanted to do contemporary music, so I looked through the website… I think there’s only three or four schools in the US offering contemporary music programs. I think Berklee is the most famous one, so I was like oh yeah, let me come here! I applied and was accepted, so I went!
I don’t regret anything I did for the past four or five years. That was probably the best decision I made, to move to Boston. I studied music production and songwriting. Well, a quick side note. When I first got into Berklee, I was actually planning on doing songwriting. But after a semester in, I realized Berklee’s songwriting program is more like country writing.
OOOO…
Right?! You wouldn’t expect that. Yeah, it’s very lyric heavy, very Nashville-style. I remember every class, people were analyzing Carrie Underwood.
We love her, but I guess that wasn’t what you were trying to do!
Right! So after the first semester, I switched my program to music production. Then I realized, that’s where pop is actually happening at Berklee. As you know, nowadays music is very production heavy.
Now, I have a question for you… did you find it difficult to switch programs? I know there’s a lot of people who end up changing their majors, and I’m one of those people. It was pretty difficult for me to switch into communication, despite the fact that I kinda had a good idea of what I really wanted.
Yes. There’s definitely some difficulty, I think. At Berklee, you have to apply for each program. Music production is probably the most competitive major at Berklee, and they cap it. They only take like 50 students per semester for that program.
Ohhhhhh my *gasps and screeches*
I know.
THAT’S SO… SO…
I know, isn’t that crazy? I have a lot of friends that have applied like three or four times and still haven’t gotten in. They only take in like 50 students, because in this program, you have to take up studio resources and the school has very limited studio space. So, they just try to not overcrowd the program, and each semester they take in like 50 students. Berklee has like 5,000 active students. I’m very grateful that they took me when I decided to switch my program. That was awesome.
You finished though, and THEN what happened?
I moved to LA! This year I’ve been working with a lot of different artists. For the first half of my year, I spent most of my time producing and writing with different artists. I think it’s the summer that changed my mind. While I was writing with those artists, for a couple of months it was like oh wow, that was great! But I still feel like a part of me was missing. When you do collaborations with artists, the final result is usually like a compromise between you and the artist.
I’ve heard that a lot.
Yeah, exactly so it’s like everyone in that room (in the writing room) especially when you do like a collaboration project, everyone in the room contributes a part of themselves to the final product. After I did that for a couple of months, I felt like a part of me was missing. I wanted something that can fully represent who I am and what I want to do, my artistry, and my individuality.
Around August, I felt like it was my time. I worked with enough artists, but I felt like it was time for me to put something out for myself. I was always writing for other people, but I was like what about me? What about myself? What about my own artistry? That’s when I had the idea. Also summer in LA was like crazy. Every day, I wanted to go to WeHo to dance!
AYEEEEE
I went to the clubs a lot. July and August, you could find me in WeHo like four times a week. I danced a LOT, and I love dancing so much… I thought to myself, let me just put out a dance recorddd. I needed that in my life. So that’s how it came to be.
It seems like you launching your artist project happened at the perfect time! You tried out production, and to me, it didn’t seem like you had a horrible time and that it was a “10/10 wouldn’t recommend.” But it just got to the point where you were like you know what, let me become my own.
Definitely. I’m still working with other artists as well, but I think right now I divide half my time working on my own artist project and the other half still working with other people.
Do you find that to be a struggle sometimes?
Oh yeah, especially because I’m an international student. My work visa is bugging me a lot of the time. There’s a lot of restrictions, also, I have to renew my work visa, so that part is actually holding me back. I’m trying to get that fixed as soon as possible
For now, you’re definitely going to make all of us dance with “Boundaries.” I wanna hear a little bit more about how that song came about! You’re pretty much calling someone out, putting them right on the spot.
Yes. This song is fully about my ex boyfriend that I dated for two years… we literally started right when the pandemic began. It was crazy because everything got shut down, right? It was like Spring 2020 and we were just bored on Grindr at that time. I was like oh let’s meet up. At first, we thought it was a hookup thing, but it turned into a two year long relationship. It was great for what it was, but the ending was rough. I moved to LA in February, and at first, I was like oh, let’s try a long distance relationship and see if it works out.
*Chels is making a disgusted face*
It’s because he still has school until the end of the year. I think he’s about to graduate. He goes to Boston University, which wasn’t too far from me. He came to LA with me actually… that was nice of him, because he had never come to the west coast before. I was like, why don’t you help me move in? Then he just went back to Boston for school. But literally, I think it was five days after Valentine’s, he broke up with me on the phone. I still remember on Valentine’s Day, I was calling him and posted on my Instagram that I was so thankful for him and grateful to have spent the past two years with him. God knows, five days later, we broke up and I had to archive everything.
The thing is, he’s the kind of person that wasn’t really good at expressing his emotions. Thinking back from now, he was bound to break up with me. I think I was ignoring a lot of signs, because I was already anxious about moving to LA. There’s actually a lot of signs I could tell you about.
When we were together during the pandemic, we didn’t give a shit about our appearances at all.
Exactly! There were people not showering for like a whole week. EEK! I mean, that wasn’t me… I was showering every day… but some people chose to not shave or anything!
Yeah! Especially when you’re in a very stable relationship, you give zero f*cks because this person has already seen your worst parts, you know what I mean? For the past two years, we didn’t give a shit. But then, I started to… okay well thinking back to December of last year, he started being very clean cut. Very clean shaven, and every time we went out, he tried to deck himself out and be more social with other people… which wasn’t really happening before. He was actually ready to break up with me… he was even talking to some random boys from Boston University that I didn’t even know at all. At that time, he was like “yeah, we just met at a party.” I was like okay. But then literally two weeks after he went back to Boston, he started dating one of them.
WHAT?!?!
I was like…. great! The weirdest thing about it was the way he broke up with me. I remember the day he flew from LA to Boston. He was like “oh, I feel like we should have some boundaries, because we were too close before.” I was like, what do you mean? We’re in a relationship, and I’m in LA… and you’re in Boston… what do you mean by boundaries when we’re literally thousands of miles apart? Every day, I was trying to FaceTime him because I was like, if you decide to do a long distance relationship, we should find some activities that we can do together every day. I was trying to do a Netflix party and FaceTime him every day. But after a few days, he was like “ugh, I think we should have more boundaries set up, this is too much.”
But you’re just watching Netflix! I don’t understand…
We’re in a relationship, and we’re thousands of miles apart!
It’s not like you’re asking him for his social security number!
Yes, exactly! And it’s not like we’re literally living in the same room 24 hours a day together. It’s not. We didn’t see each other, so everything was off. I didn’t understand… for two weeks, I was like, what do you mean by boundaries? I miss you, I want you. I cried so many times over the phone telling him I miss you and I really love you. That was really hard for me to be honest. Then five days after Valentine’s, he’s like “I don’t think this is really working. We need to take some time off for now.” He said “it’s already gone” or whatever. Just the whole breakup process was so f*cking weird and rough, and then THREE days after he broke up with me, he found another person… and then he started to post on his Instagram “falling in love again” or whatever. I was like…. HOW?!
THAT’S SO SHADY! THAT. IS. SO. SHADY.
I was like what the f*ck is that? The whole thing was so f*cking shocking, I have a whole album written down about that era.
Yiiiiiikes.
It was horrible.
You know what? I just threw a bag away in the trash, and that’s how I feel about this. How could something play out like that? That’s so awful!
So awful, and the ending was really rough. I texted him and was like, oh, I didn’t know you already found someone… if you didn’t like me, you should’ve told me instead of saying we should do a long distance relationship. He was just like, “oh, I didn’t know at that time. I thought it was gonna work out.” But clearly, you weren’t planning to do it. Like, I scheduled so many Netflix parties and tried to FaceTime you every day, but you were just like “oh this is too much.” The whole thing was just f*cking dumb. I didn’t know it at that time because I trusted him so much and thought he wasn’t going to cheat on me… he’s probably just overwhelmed with school work. I found so many excuses for him.
You gave him the benefit of the doubt.
Yeah, and I ignored the red flags.
Well, don’t blame yourself for that. But on top of that, you were probably SICK of hearing about boundaries… and since he wanted to talk about boundaries, you decided to give people something to really talk about, which was a song!
Boundaries was the word he used the most in February. I was like, f*ck your fake ass boundaries! That’s exactly what I was thinking. I actually wrote some lines earlier this year, but I always had that concept in my voice memo. I didn’t really turn it into a song until August though. I was going through my voice memos, and I was like wow… boundaries? That’s exactly how I felt, and I wanted to make it anthemic and dance-y.
Then I called up my friend Gabriella who I went to Berklee with. She’s an amazing songwriter, I write everything with her. We just gathered together and did a few sessions together. She’s in New York, so we did everything remote. We finished the song in September.
I didn’t really get enough vocal training growing up, so I was kinda doubting myself. I was wondering if I should find another artist to sing it, and was actually pondering upon that for quite a while. That was holding me back in September. I actually tried to reach out to some of my friends to see if they thought they could sing on it, but when they sent me their versions of it, I felt like something was missing. This song is too personal! I felt like no one else could capture the nuances and emotions as much as I can. everything’s just too personal to me, and I was like f*ck it, let me do it.
I had my friend record for me, I added the vocals myself, produced, and that’s the story!
That… like… if you could write a book, I’d buy it!
Oh, I love you!
I do want to backtrack just a bit… just a teeny tiny bit. What originally drew you into music when you were younger?
I think it was probably just the joy of sharing. I think that’s a big part of me. You know, if you go to a club and the dj plays a song that everyone enjoys…
Everyone’s like YAAAAAAA!
Everyone loves it!
And you remember that feeling too!
Yeah! I think that’s what really drives me every time. If I go to WeHo and they start to play like “Dancing Queen” by ABBA, everyone’s like YAAAS! There are certain songs that everyone’s going crazy for, like “Toxic” by Britney Spears.
YES
“Bad Romance” by Lady Gaga, you know…
It’s a communal experience.
It’s sharing, and that’s what really drives me in. I want to provide something everyone can dance to.
And it’s the fact that despite such a terrible breakup unfolded in your life, you get to share this story and realize others may be having a similar experience.
Exactly. That’s probably the best I could ever expect from this breakup. I’m really proud of this!
Wrapping things up now, what are some of your hopes and goals for 2023? This is an incredible start for what’s going to be an amazing career for you. You’ve been through a lot, and you’re gonna be able to persevere.
That’s actually a good question. At first, I was like, let me drop a single to see if it works. Now I’m thinking about my own artistry, and I never thought I’d do this, but I’m planning on releasing a song every two months. This is the first one! I think the EP will come out next year.
Excited. Excited. I’m very excited. There’s no rush, but then at the same time, don’t be surprised if I’m standing outside a building like that guy in that video who was like “WHERE IS THE ALBUM! WE NEED THE DAMN ALBUM!”
I will literally cry!
You know who I’m talking about though, it was this guy doing it for Beyoncé or Rihanna or someone. WHERE. IS THE ALBUM.
Literally, if I was Rihanna, I’d drop it now.
That’s dedication.
That’s really… if you know someone who needs you in their life like that, take that. Take that, baby! Yeah so… that’s what I plan to do for 2023. Honestly, to still keep working with other artists as well as my own artist project.
I did also want to ask you, what’s something about doing everything on your own (production, songwriting, vocals) that you think listeners wouldn’t really assume? Do you mix and master as well?
For this song, no, because after I did all of that, I listened to the song just too many times from start to finish. I went to my friend and said “I want you to help me mix.” Then I sent it to my friend Sabrina to mix. But yeah. I listened to this song way too many times to have an objective perspective anymore.
I think most people wouldn’t expect the amount of work that goes into this, and we’re not even talking about promotion. Just the process of creating this project is a lot.
Promotion is a whole different beast that we won’t even get into today!
Yeah! That’s something I didn’t realize, even after I finished the song… that’s like 30% of the work. The rest is marketing. That’s insane! That’s literally insane. I also had to do a photoshoot, I was trying to do a little video by myself, all of the Tik Toks, literally I’m just me and myself. It’s so much work. I don’t even know how to put it into words, but it was my first song. Obviously now I’m learning, and next time I think I’ll be much faster through the process. Most people don’t realize that starting with recording… you have to sing and think about what tone you want to have in each part.
Oh, there’s something I really wanted to tell you about the writing. In the chorus, there’s a line where I said “lying and cheat.” I only said that because we were trying to find words that rhyme with my ex boyfriend’s name.
MMMMMMM….
I also put a lot of the recordings, especially where he said he said he needed boundaries.
HOW DO YOU GET AWAY WITH THIS? Please! I don’t want you to be in your jail era.
Well, only I can sorta tell what it is. Most people think it’s some sort of recording, and unless I told you, you wouldn’t really know it’s my ex boyfriend talking and me crying. If you listen to the bridge specifically, you can clearly hear that I was crying. I think that’s when my ex broke up with me… I sent him a voice memo and was crying in the voice memo, I told him this was paralyzing, I want you so bad right now.
He used to call me a “stupid dumb cow.” It’s just one of those things….
It’s like a little inside joke, right?
Yeah, exactly ! And then I reclaimed that phrase in the interlude. But I saved all of our voice messages, put them on the computer, sifted through them and decided which ones I wanted to put in that song. I think just doing that voice memo thing took 6-7 hours.
I definitely wouldn’t have thought about that. It just seems like something you can throw right in, but it’s also the fact you had to sift through hundreds of messages.
Yeah, because I was being very honest with myself and asking myself what I felt at that specific point in the song. In the bridge, I felt more vulnerable, so I wanted to pick something that embodied all of that. In the interlude, I was trying to be more sassy and ironic. With each section, I couldn’t stop until I found the perfect voice memo.
Wow.
I’m actually a little bit nervous, because in the chorus I’m singing his name. If he were to turn this up really loud, he’d probably hear his name.
First of all, I hope everything goes well. Second, oh my gosh, I’d think the whole thing is very brilliant… but be careful out there!
I think I was being a little bold with this song, but I think it turned out pretty well. It’s true to my heart.
And as an independent artist, you get the freedom to be able to do this stuff.
Listen to the song again with that perspective!
Leave people shook!
In a good way.
Now, what’s one last thing you want listeners to know about this song? If there’s anything we can even add onto this. At this point, the song speaks for itself!
Each time I do a song, I’ll have a thing in my head where I think about the perfect environment for the song to be played.
Yeah, what is it?!
I actually thought about this question… I think, ideally… okay this is very specific.
I’m ready. Tell me.
I would want this to be played in March in WeHo at Rocco’s at 3AM. It’s either that, or after you get out of Rocco’s and you call an Uber… OR you get so drunk and you get in an Uber and you listen to this song. You’re just getting over one chapter and moving onto the next, and hopefully that’s when this song will be played.
Or… you know… you could listen to “Boundaries” now.
Keep up with Chengcheng on Insta at @troyincon and get ready for more bangers soon!
Chengcheng’s manifestation for our chat: “I want this song and the following EP to get label attention. I want to speak that into existence.”
